miss_s_b: (feminist heroes: Steph Brown Batgirl)
[personal profile] miss_s_b
(Very minor spoilers ahead)

  • Guns are great. Really really great. Even if you accidentally shoot someone who you are torturing for information, the information will fall into your lap immediately anyway, so don't worry about it. Batman is a bit weird for not liking guns and killing random people he's never met before, but it's an acceptable weirdness because other people can do the shooting and killing for him.

  • Anyone who talks about police and government corruption is in it for their own ends. And even if the police and or government DID lie to you, cheat you, and hurt you, they did it for your own good and you should be grateful and never question them. Anybody who does question them is evil and should be ignored.

  • Anyone who cares about their community, or is poor, or both, is a credulous moron who can be made to agree to anything by a charismatic leader. Even if you're stretching the definition of charistmatic leader to a police commissioner who looks like Ned Flanders or a man whose speech is incomprehensible half the time.

  • You can only ever be truly happy and free if you stop caring about anyone other than yourself. Your father (figure) will find this not only acceptable, but laudable. If you really care about other people, you'll end up dead or mad.

The film is very well acted, and shot, and it passes Bechdel, and Catwoman is very cool. But it left a very nasty taste in my mouth for the above reasons. I also find it inconsistent with the tone of the previous two films, in which the citizen's of Gotham were shown to be more than sheep who could be easily manipulated by a criminal mastermind.

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 10:51 am (UTC)
innerbrat: (Default)
From: [personal profile] innerbrat
I don't think it does pass Bechdel, as Holly is never named on screen.

And on point one, I think it worth mentioning that that was a scene in which the character stopped liking guns.

OH OH and Don't forget all the "occupy wall street is evil" vibes.

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 11:08 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] magister
One the one hand, he stops liking guns. On the other hand, he's immediately presented with the information he's looking for. Slight mixed message there, it could be said.

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 10:59 am (UTC)
drunkwriter: Me in South Park form. (Default)
From: [personal profile] drunkwriter
Catwoman is quite cool, granted, and was a nice surprise as in my heart I still blame Anne Hathaway personally for one of the most wretched evenings of my life enduring The Devil Wears Prada. But I didn't like the final twist - I much prefer the Batman Returns of "I would love to come away with you and live in your castle... I just couldn't live with myself." I'm a little happier about it now that I've done some reading up on Holly Robinson and discovered she wasn't necessarily Kyle's girlfriend (as I completely assumed while watching the film). But even so.

Also, if you're going to read out the most famous closing sentences of any novel ever written, it's probably a good idea to at least flip to the end of the book rather than going from somewhere in the middle.

There was just a little bit more fun in the other two films. At the end, I just remembered what my Dad said about the 2005 season of Doctor Who:

"It's all jolly exciting, but it's not exactly Horror of Fang Rock, is it?"

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 11:58 am (UTC)
sfred: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sfred
It seemed really obvious to me, watching the film, that Holly was Kyle's girlfriend. I'm choosing to stick with that interpretation. :-)

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 12:13 pm (UTC)
drunkwriter: Me in South Park form. (Default)
From: [personal profile] drunkwriter
Well, me too on the whole - apart from the bit where Holly's dumped without a backward glance to make room for Selina's happy ever after. With that ending in mind, I almost prefer to think that they were Just Good Friends.

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 01:28 pm (UTC)
sfred: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sfred
I like to think Selina had just gone to visit Bruce in Florence before going home to her wife.

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 11:06 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] magister
I'm not sure the people of Gotham are seen as sheep, largely because they're not really seen all that much. For the most part, during Bane's occupation of Gotham, you only see a few major characters - the people of Gotham are pretty much conspicuous by their absence. Rather than one film of two and three quarter hours, maybe it would have been better as a pair of two hour films, the first one ending with the first confrontation between Batman and Bane? Coudn't help feeling that Bruce's recovery seemed a bit rushed too - two dozen press ups'll cure anything, it seems.

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 12:06 pm (UTC)
drunkwriter: Me in South Park form. (Default)
From: [personal profile] drunkwriter
Bruce's recovery dropped the ball. As we all know, always fade out on a montage...

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 11:28 am (UTC)
londonkds: (like hell is country republican (by nos))
From: [personal profile] londonkds
It's like the first films were written by Frank Miller circa 1986, who had some redeeming features, and this one was written by Frank Miller 2012 ("You Occupy scum are TRAITORS for protesting against your goverment when you should be out there KILLING MUSLIMS!").

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 02:09 pm (UTC)
pmoodie: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pmoodie
So, basically, it's not as good as The Avengers? :)

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 08:24 pm (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Default)
From: [personal profile] matgb
She came home from it, came into the living room, and told me that I was right and she was wrong. this confused me for some time as it took her awhile to explain and actually say that Marvel's better than DC.

I think she's still partially right though, DC has better villains, Marvel better heroes and a better overall universe.

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 08:46 pm (UTC)
pmoodie: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pmoodie
I'd say that the first two Nolan Batman films (I haven't seen the new one yet) show that DC can be better in many ways, but Marvel Studios have delivered more consistent entertainment for me over the past few years. They had a risky long-term game plan, and it has paid off wonderfully.

Date: Thursday, July 26th, 2012 08:24 am (UTC)
pmoodie: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pmoodie
Yes, coolness and edginess are hugely important factors for teens, and Batman has those in bucketloads (when he's not directed by Joel Schumacher, that is...), whereas Marvel characters tend to be more square and silly. But I care less and less about such things as I get older, and it's refreshing to see a bit of optimistic and uncynical escapism once in a while.

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 03:52 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Many more people voted for david Cameron than one would expect. He must have some sort of mesmerising sheep capability.

Deliberately anon.

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 09:07 pm (UTC)
innerbrat: (Batman)
From: [personal profile] innerbrat
GUYS GUYS GUYS. Alfred was imagining that last scene. It is insanely out of character for either Bruce and Selina and ridiculous.

Alfred is overcome with grief and mourning for his lost son. OF COURSE he's making up fantasies to get himself through.

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 10:35 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] magister
Although he did spend a lot of Dark Knight talking about how he'd be able to quit one day. Never quite sure that he meant it though.

Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 10:15 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] magister
Agreed. I really hope it wasn't just me in tears during Michael Caine's last speech.
And I have to say, it's really quite disquieting that a film with so many superb elements - music, performances, cinematography, stunts, intelligence - left me thinking "Well, that was a bit disappointing".

This was supposed to be replying to Innerbrat, but I pressed the wrong button. Dammit.
Edited Date: Wednesday, July 25th, 2012 10:33 pm (UTC)

Date: Thursday, July 26th, 2012 05:01 pm (UTC)
rhythmaning: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rhythmaning
Excellent review, ta.

I'll still probably see it, though...!

Date: Thursday, July 26th, 2012 11:50 pm (UTC)
telegramsam: John Byers Disapproves (Disapproving Byers)
From: [personal profile] telegramsam
Yea, I caught a lot of that as well, it just seemed so... weird. I mean, as far as special-effects popcorn flicks go, I guess it was alright, but it's certainly nothing I'll be tempted to see a second time.

I dunno, maybe the Hollyweirds are annoyed at all that SOPA/PIPA/ACTA crap of theirs being shot down because of public protest and this is their way of flipping the bird at us all...

Date: Friday, July 27th, 2012 02:02 am (UTC)
telegramsam: John Byers Disapproves (Disapproving Byers)
From: [personal profile] telegramsam
Hm, it's kind of a mixed bag on that end. Some issues they tend to be liberal, while others they tend to be very conservative. It's a very insular and often downright bizarre culture, to say the least...

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