miss_s_b: (Pratchett: Nanny Ogg)
[personal profile] miss_s_b
I had my first view of An Unexpected Journey tonight. I'm going to see it again tomorrow with Holly (who is mega excited for it) and my mum; will hopefully do a proper review tomorrow, but suffice to say it's bloody fabulous, EXTREMELY faithful to the book(s)*, and Gollum is the cutest most loveliest thing ever.

The thing I want to blog about tonight, though, is VINDICATION. There was argument about whether or not LotR dwarves are like Discworld dwarves (i.e. indeterminate gender identity). I am firmly on the side of HELL YES THEY ARE, and furthermore Gimli is clearly a bisexual lady who has an elf fetish. There are others who are... less convinced of this than I am. HOWEVER, in The Hobbit, when Gandalf is describing Radagast to the company he uses THE EXACT WORDS used to describe Ridcully the Brown when he is first introduced in the Discworld books. Obviously the desciption give of Ridcully is meant to conjure up images of Radagast, so it's a nice nod. But it also means that the writers have explicitly considered Discworld, THEREFORE it is quite legitimate to play guess the gender identity with the company dwarves.

Amirite? I ARE RITE!

Of those in the film, I don't want to make definitive pronouncements about any but two. Oin is definitely a boy; that type of campness is something I have never seen in anyone who wasn't cis male. And Thorin is definiely a girl. That lustrous hair, that silky beard, that way with using improvised weapons; she's the only one who organises things, she's the most sensible, and she's by far the huggiest of the dwarves**.

I lean towards saying that Bombur, Biffur, Balin and Fili and Kili are ladies too***, but I wouldn't say for definite. Dwalin I would say is probably a bloke. The others are, in my head at least, genderqueer.

Anyhew, I am a happy bunny, I enjoyed the film very much, and I thought Thorin was an excellent heroine :)



* as in, the bits that are in there which aren't in The Hobbit are almost all from Tolkein's expansions.
** You might say that I am being somewhat stereotypical about gender roles here; possibly I am. But it beats saying that the only girls in the film were Galadriel (who admittedly has a far bigger part to play than she was given by JRR), a few hobbit extras, and an unnamed elf playing the flute...
*** Which makes the regular fatshaming of Bombur extra depressing...

Date: Sunday, December 16th, 2012 02:25 am (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Default)
From: [personal profile] matgb
Obviously the desciption give of Ridcully ... And Thorin is definiely a girl

And you complain about my spelling...

Date: Sunday, December 16th, 2012 06:17 am (UTC)
innerbrat: (discworld)
From: [personal profile] innerbrat
Also, Thorin cannot read a map. We feel that the whole movie would have gone smoother if she wasn't always "where are we going?" and had to get an elf to read her map. Also when running away from orcs she kept going in circles and leading them back to the orc chase.

And everyone knows women can't read maps.

I had Kili as a lady, because she's clearly got a helluva lot to prove, and has that over eagerness of a young Action Girl.

Date: Sunday, December 16th, 2012 06:19 am (UTC)
innerbrat: (discworld)
From: [personal profile] innerbrat
Also this means that the single dwarven lady we see at the beginning with a clean shaven face and a dress was obviously queer like Cheri.

And re: your ** footnote. We were talking about Zac Snyder on the subway home, and I realised that 300 was less of a sausage fest.

Date: Monday, December 17th, 2012 10:04 am (UTC)
yoyoangel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yoyoangel
You are rite.

I reckon Kili and Fili both as women - but I want Thorin to be a man because otherwise we lose the homoeroticism of when he only-just-resists snogging Bilbo. Or maybe Thorin's a genderqueer woman - that would work too (projecting? Moi?).

I liked the fact that half the dwarves - the kickass half - were clearly/audibly Yorkshire.

Date: Monday, December 17th, 2012 11:39 am (UTC)
yoyoangel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yoyoangel
Ooh, I didn't even realise he wasn't naturally Yorkshire! Yay!

Date: Monday, December 17th, 2012 11:44 am (UTC)
yoyoangel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yoyoangel
Cool!

Date: Thursday, December 20th, 2012 02:01 pm (UTC)
karohemd: (Devil)
From: [personal profile] karohemd
*grins*
Thorin looks like Gowron to me (all these glowering stares over the top of his nose).
I agree with Balin, though, he not only has the lushest hair, he's also basically their mother hen.

So, if there aren't any obvious physical differences, how do Dwarves breed?

Date: Thursday, December 20th, 2012 04:24 pm (UTC)
karohemd: by LJ user gothindulgence (Default)
From: [personal profile] karohemd
Ah yes, of course.

Date: Thursday, December 20th, 2012 10:20 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
You are partly correct. The only Dwarf female mentioned is Dis the mother of Fili & Kili. Dwarf women are described as alike in voice appearance and garb as the men so that they can't be told apart (appx A - Durin's Folk)

However if she is the only dwarf female then it does mean Fili, Kili, Gimli & Gloin are are male.

Hywel

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