miss_s_b: (Politics: Democracy)
[personal profile] miss_s_b
Have been discussing with Emma Burnell of Scarlet Standard on twitter which Doctor would win a Best Doctor poll if run under different electoral systems. And then we got to thinking we ought to test it...

We'd ideally want to have "who was the best doctor?" as the question three times, and then have twelve options to vote for (One to Eleven and then Other for the snowflakes) - one question would be FPTP, one would be STV and one AV. Theoretically the poll software on dreamwidth is good for it, but people often have problems logging in with openID etc. So, which would be the best software to use?

Aside from the fact that it would be interesting to Whovians it's also Serious Political Research, to prove that electoral systems really do affect results.

And, you know, I could at least HOPE that my beloved Sixie wouldn't come bottom in all three...

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 06:45 pm (UTC)
lonemagpie: guy from the cover of sanctuary (WTF)
From: [personal profile] lonemagpie
Wouldn't the answer to "Who was the best Doctor?" be "yes"?

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 07:20 pm (UTC)
lonemagpie: Vastra and Jenny (vastra)
From: [personal profile] lonemagpie
Still, I'd definitely vote in the three options

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 07:00 pm (UTC)
softfruit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] softfruit
I'd need there to be 'party emblem' style pictures to remind me which was which as from 5 on I do get them in a muddle.

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 07:32 pm (UTC)
sir_guinglain: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sir_guinglain
Excellent idea. Let's do it, once the software has been identified.

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 07:52 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] magister
I'm hoping we'd get Cushing as well as the tv doctors.

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 08:55 pm (UTC)
djm4: (Default)
From: [personal profile] djm4
I have generally thought that AV *is* STV in the particular case where you're electing one position (here, that of 'best Doctor'). Am I missing something?

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 09:11 pm (UTC)
djm4: (Default)
From: [personal profile] djm4
There's still functionally no difference between the two (and, for that matter, they don't really work for giving you a ranking, just an overall winner). Condorcet, mind you...

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 09:22 pm (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Default)
From: [personal profile] matgb
If there's an online condorcet calculator that'd be really cool, never seen one but haven't really looked.

I think a multi-round runoff'd be good though.

Date: Friday, April 12th, 2013 09:28 am (UTC)
sashajwolf: photo of Blake with text: "reality is a dangerous concept" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sashajwolf
I'd be really interested to see a test that calculated the Condorcet result from a list ranked by voters, and then compared it to the result obtained by showing voters each individual pairing and asking them which they prefer. I have a theory that people use a different thought process for the two ways of indicating preferences, and thus that the results would be different even though in theory the two methods should be equivalent. I'd really like to see that tested.

Date: Friday, April 12th, 2013 06:37 pm (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Default)
From: [personal profile] matgb
I have a vague recollection of having read a study where that was done, possibly Canadian, several years ago, but it's very vague (Canadian electoral geekery is quite useful overall, similar polity to us, same traditions, but every province has its own Parliament with different histories, lots of data).

But I don't remember enough to even know where to start looking these days.

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 09:01 pm (UTC)
andrewducker: (Default)
From: [personal profile] andrewducker
Can the DW polling system do ranking?

Sadly, a quick look around doesn't turn up any decent vote counters.

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 09:03 pm (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Default)
From: [personal profile] matgb
one question would be FPTP, one would be STV and one AV.

Um, qué?

AV is single member STV, STV is multi-member AV, if you're looking for a single winner, AV and STV are identical so I am completely confused.

However, if you were to run FPTP, AV and Condorcet, that'd be cool.

(and that electoral systems effect results isn't in doubt-it's that they affect voter behaviour that matters, but for that to be evident you need to run the poll multiple times to show how FPTP choices change-ooh, run off voting opposed to AV and Condorcet (which you'd only need to run once), that'd be interesting)

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 09:17 pm (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
I was going to make the AV/STV point, but I see that no-one's made the obvious joke -- what if someone wants to vote for a Doctor who isn't one of the first eleven *or* The Other?

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 09:25 pm (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Default)
From: [personal profile] matgb
Smartarse making incredibly obscure reference. Well done sir.

If "Other" as an option does well enough it'd need breaking up, obviously-not sure I'd vote for him but Cushing has to have a chance...

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 09:21 pm (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
I'd definitely vote for Colin at second or third preference at worst, on account of he is my favorite audio Doctor and audios are my favorite Doctor Who, but probably that'd make someone else think I was wrecking their system by which they were determining canon ;)

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 10:29 pm (UTC)
ext_390810: (Default)
From: [identity profile] http://www.nickbarlow.com/blog/
I had the same AV/STV thought as a few others above, but if you had the time available to do the 11 successive polls necessary, it might be interesting to do an exhaustive ballot and see what result that has in comparison to AV.

Date: Thursday, April 11th, 2013 10:53 pm (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
Incidentally, were I to vote in an AV or other preferential election for Doctors, my choices would go:
1 Hartnell
2 Troughton
3 Baker (C)
4 Baker (T)
5 McGann
6 McCoy
7 Pertwee
8 Davison
9 Eccleston
10 Other
11 Smith
12 Tennant

Though the first four could really come in any order, as could the next four.
In a FPTP election, I'd vote Baker (T) to keep out Tennant.

Date: Friday, April 12th, 2013 11:21 am (UTC)
ggreig: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ggreig
No love for the Valeyard?

Date: Friday, April 12th, 2013 04:30 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] magister
Well, yes, you've got the Unbound Doctors, Richard Hurndall, debateably David Bradley and Reece Shearsmith, Gatiss, Jim Broadbent and REG twice each, Rowan Atkinson, Hugh Grant, Joanna Lumley...

Possibly even Terry Walsh - he's almost certainly got more screen time than McGann...

Date: Friday, April 12th, 2013 06:33 pm (UTC)
daweaver:   (compute)
From: [personal profile] daweaver
OpenSTV 1.6.1 is open-source software and - despite the lead author's best attempts to promote privatised successor projects - still easily available. There are requirements to install Python, or appoint a returning officer with access to Linux or similar. See also Accurate Democracy's tools list.

I've used OpenSTV for the past couple of years, not least to crunch that annual exercise in democratic futility, Eurovision Song Contest qualification votes (using lists of ranked top 10s, select 10 of these 18 songs to come back on Saturday). An STV election would have changed a few of the finalists, but wouldn't have altered the winner.

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