miss_s_b: (Mood: Facepalm)
[personal profile] miss_s_b
... I think we've just done the worst.

I remain to be convinced that airstrikes will help to defeat Daesh, because you can't blow up an idea. I remain to be convinced that NOT blowing up bit of Syria would help either. I'm in a paralysis of indecision about the whole thing. One thing I am sure of, though, is that from the point of view of gaining an electoral advantage we've just done the worst possible thing.

- Our glorious leader announces, after much handwringing, that we're going to whip our 8 MPs to support airstrikes, pissing off a good 40% of our activists just before a by election;
- Cameron, intentionally or not, pisses of half his Labour sycophants by talking about terrorist sympathisers so he now has much weaker support from the red team;
- The foreign affairs select committee, despite the best efforts of Uncle Crispin, announce that they think airstrikes are a really bad idea;
- we now look like the rump that's left of us is still supporting the tories even though we don't have to, and even though nobody else thinks it's a good idea.

Still, on the plus side it's taken a good five and a half months for our new leader to make such a monumental tactical fuckup, and further on the plus side so few people are paying attention to us these days nobody is going to notice or care, and if they do they'll just shrug because supporting the tories needlessly is what we're for, right?

I think the time has come for me to see if I can find Dave Page's Patented Desk made of human hands so that I can headdesk and facepalm at the same time.

UPDATE: quote from my twitter feed: "sad but unsurprising to see the rump lib dems being lickspittles"

*headdesk* *headdesk* *headdesk*

UPDATE 2: and another, as pointed out by Andrew in the comments below: "It's easier to have contempt for the Lib Dems than Tories in the same way it's easier to have contempt for Grima Wormtongue than Saruman."

Several people I really respect are considering their party membership this morning, including one who has been a member for 20+ years and served on a lot of Federal committees. I am just really really depressed.

Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2015 02:30 am (UTC)
sir_guinglain: (UKPolitics)
From: [personal profile] sir_guinglain
I was astonished. I appreciate that it might be seen as diplomatically appropriate to help the US and France, but the more I've looked into this the more I don't think bombing is appropriate or correct; I'm not convinced that there is a realistic plan.

Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2015 07:09 am (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
Pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2015 08:23 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Utterly agreed. I saw Lawrence Miles tweet last night "It's easier to have contempt for the Lib Dems than the Tories, in the same way it's easier to have contempt for Grima Wormtongue than for Saruman".
That's what we're becoming.
(Andrew)

Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2015 10:17 am (UTC)
nanila: me (Default)
From: [personal profile] nanila
I am depressed. I honestly think the only way to defeat Daesh militarily (if that's how we're going to do things, grumble grumble) is full commitment to a campaign, and that includes boots on the ground/Western troops comprising a coherent force. I don't necessarily think this is the best or the only way to go about it, but the half-baked dithering approach that Western powers have been taking for years hasn't worked out so well either.

Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2015 10:30 am (UTC)
nickbarlow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nickbarlow
My current thought on so many things including this is 'not enough head, not enough desk'. When a leadership decision has the Smug Git faction acting even more patronising than usual, it's obviously wrong.

The way I see it, there's a balance: on one side, things I say in the party despite; on the other, things I stay in the party for. The former is currently looking a lot weightier than the latter.

Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2015 10:39 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Agreed with most of this, *but* I think Tim has MOSTLY been moving stuff from the former into the latter. Not in this case, though, sadly.

Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2015 11:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] newandrewhickey.livejournal.com
In case people haven't seen the Tweets about it, anonymous is me...

Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2015 11:34 am (UTC)
nickbarlow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nickbarlow
Yes, but there are other people still happily throwing things into the despite box, like Lord Grabbyhands and his friends. The 'shut up and make phone calls/deliver leaflets' tendency is still about in earnest and policy still seems to be aimed towards a centrist mush, just a mush that's a bit left of where it used to be.

Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2015 11:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] newandrewhickey.livejournal.com
Indeed. It will be a long time before we get the party back into a reasonable state. If we ever do :-/

Date: Friday, December 4th, 2015 10:27 am (UTC)
po8crg: A cartoon of me, wearing a panama hat (Default)
From: [personal profile] po8crg
I love Simon Foster's approach to the 'shut up and make phone calls/deliver leaflets' tendency and wish I could replicate it (make ten phone calls, post on Facebook complaining about something, make ten more, post another complaint, wash, repeat).

It really gets up their noses.

Date: Wednesday, December 2nd, 2015 02:25 pm (UTC)
sfred: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sfred
I am a combination of depressed and terrified, and I'm not even a Lib Dem.

Date: Thursday, December 3rd, 2015 09:02 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] sassy_scot
I am more definitely convinced that airstrikes in Syria are a bad idea. However yesterday wasn't as awful as those awful days during the coalition years when we were voting for stuff that I couldn't for the life of me understand why on earth any Liberal Democrat could ever sign up to - secret courts and welfare reform for a start.

I had this massive inner conflict between an instinctive feeling that this was wrong with an equally instinctive pride for Tim. If we've been accused of anything over the last few years, it's selling out on our principles. There could be no doubt that Tim was acting with courage, on principle and entirely motivated by liberal, humanitarian instincts.

I want him to be right in a way I never wanted Cleggy to be right on welfare reform.

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