miss_s_b: (geekiness)
[personal profile] miss_s_b
The lovely [personal profile] ruthct21 commented on a post of mine yesterday (more in sorrow than in anger, I think) that she was going to have to avoid reading my stuff if I wasn't more careful about spoilers for Doctor Who, as she's somewhere in South America and hasn't seen the new episode yet. This came as something of a surprise to me, because I thought I had been pretty careful about spoilers when posting about Doctor Who... But then it occurred to me that Ruth and I might have very different definitions of what constitutes a spoiler. SO:

Poll #18215 What counts as Spoilers?
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: Just the Poll Creator, participants: 46

What counts as Spoilers?

An episode of X show was on
0 (0.0%)

An episode of X show was on and I liked/disliked it
1 (2.2%)

An episode of X show was on and A, B, and C characters appeared in it
16 (34.8%)

An episode of X show was on and it resolved a cliffhanger from a previous episode (without saying HOW it resolved the cliffhanger)
5 (10.9%)

An episode of X show was on and it resolved a cliffhanger from a previous episode in the following way
44 (95.7%)

An episode of X show was on and it contained the following general types of plot device
18 (39.1%)

An episode of X show was on and it had these specific plot points in it
42 (91.3%)

An episode of X show was on and this is EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED IN IT
44 (95.7%)

An episode of X show was on and it didn't involve enough ticky boxes and that makes me sad.
21 (45.7%)

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 09:11 am (UTC)
pseudomonas: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pseudomonas
If the cliffhanger was something that couldn't reasonably be expected to be resolved this episode, or A/B/C were not characters that appear pretty much every episode, then those too are spoilers.

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 09:15 am (UTC)
pseudomonas: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pseudomonas
(obvious extreme example: if A was a character thought to be dead, then the fact of their appearance is itself spoilersome)
Edited Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 09:16 am (UTC)

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 10:19 am (UTC)
londonkds: (Default)
From: [personal profile] londonkds
I agree with pseudomonas that mere character names can need spoiler cutting if it is the surprise reappearance of a previously established character. (Even if they've been in trailers, because some people are so spoiler-phobic that they try to avoid official trailers.)

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 10:21 am (UTC)
londonkds: (BLOOD AND TITTIES FOR LORD CHIBNALL!!! ()
From: [personal profile] londonkds
By contrast, I thought it was unfair a couple of years ago when a person on my reading list got yelled at by somebody for mentioning the name of a well-known actor who was a guest cast member, who had never appeared on Who before and was playing a single-episode character of no continuity relevance.

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 10:41 am (UTC)
dancefloorlandmine: (Constantine)
From: [personal profile] dancefloorlandmine
There was always a rush to hit 'Stop' on Dr Who before they did the "in the next episode" trailer, which would almost always reveal major plot elements of the next episode. In some cases, knowing what the monster-of-the-week is will actually be a spoiler - e.g. if they're a 'villain-behind-the-curtain' - putting their existence in a trailer or discussion will pretty much negate the "wonder who the villain is" sense of wonder.

My partner always avoids trailers, discussion of episodes, etc - she wants to see each episode tabula rasa, so as to discover it second-by-second. Much like when you're reading a book, and discover the plot word-by-word. (Books that reveal major plot points in the back cover copy are bloody annoying, too.)
(Except if it stars Liam Neeson, and bad things happen to him, because, especially in Next Of Kin, he looks like her husband did when they met. Also, if bad things happen to animals.)

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 10:45 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: 12 Apostles rocks, text "Rock On" (12 Apostles)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Usually I would not consider all of these spoilers, but there's certainly circumstances under which they could be. Times like someone who is known to be a fan of a particular character who is supposed to be dead mentions how amazing and surprising and great this episode was!

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 10:52 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: 12 Apostles rocks, text "Rock On" (12 Apostles)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Sorry, my phrasing is unclear! I meant "not all of these are spoilers but some are"!

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 11:30 am (UTC)
ggreig: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ggreig
I like that more people consider it spoilery to resolve the cliffhanger than do covering everything-in-the-episode (as of the time of writing this comment, anyway). Maybe they're relying on TL;DR?

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 11:44 am (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Isolated tree in leaf, against blue sky. (Default)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
Yes, that's true. There would be a big difference between "Luke Skywalker is going to appear in The Last Jedi" and "Obi Wan Kenobi is going to appear in The Last Jedi" (but the last assertion is not actually a spoiler because I just made it up.

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 11:57 am (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Isolated tree in leaf, against blue sky. (Default)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
It was a somewhat hypothetical example! :)

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 12:07 pm (UTC)
nickbarlow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nickbarlow
I think that's fine, and I think there has to be an expectation that any discussion of an episode beyond 'like/dislike' is going to contain some discussion of things that happened. The line for me is somewhere between 'X's performance as Y was good' and 'X's performance as Y was good, especially when they became the monster of the week', or the difference between describing Derek Jacobi as playing Professor Yana and Derek Jacobi playing the Master.

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 01:09 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] theandrewhickey
I think that certainly *could* be a spoiler, but doesn't have to be.
For me, at least, the concept of spoilers only really works for certain kinds of entertainment -- ones where the plot is the main appeal, and where that plot is predicated on a surprise twist somewhere.
To take two murder mystery examples, it would be *very* easy to spoiler The Murder of Roger Ackroyd -- so much so that it would be impossible to discuss anything at all about the book sensibly. On the other hand, you could recount every event in The Name of the Rose and not, I think, spoil the story one iota -- the pleasure from that comes almost entirely from the way the story's told, not from the events that happen in it.
Personally, I take the attitude that very few things can really be spoiled -- I like the way in which old books and plays were called things like "The Life and Strange Surprizing Adventures of Robinson Crusoe, Of York, Mariner: Who lived Eight and Twenty Years, all alone in an un-inhabited Island on the Coast of America, near the Mouth of the Great River of Oroonoque; Having been cast on Shore by Shipwreck, wherein all the Men perished but himself. With An Account how he was at last as strangely deliver'd by Pyrates."
I think it really does have to be on a case-by-case basis though. I've told people who want to read Philip Purser-Hallard's Devices books not even to learn the *title* of the second book until they've read the first, because it's a massive spoiler for a genuinely amazing twist half-way through the first book...

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 01:23 pm (UTC)
rmc28: Rachel standing in front of the entrance to the London Eye pier (Default)
From: [personal profile] rmc28
This is what I was coming here to say :-)

I wouldn't normally regard "people in episode" as a spoiler, unless they are unexpected people.

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 01:41 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] theandrewhickey
I'm a very longwinded person ;)

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 02:53 pm (UTC)
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea (Default)
From: [personal profile] redbird
I ticked the ones that I am reasonably sure count as spoilers; things like "specific plot points" depend both on what the specific plot points are, and the context. "A major character is murdered" is likely to be a spoiler—but not if the character in question is the president of the United States and the episode is set in November 1963.

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 03:11 pm (UTC)
bob: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bob
Most spoilers are about the destination not the journey. The journey is the thing which keeps me entertained.
A blow by blow recap of an episode may ruin the journey but then again its not the actual actors doing it.

having zoe in a new episode would certainly be unexpected

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 04:37 pm (UTC)
solarbird: (zoe-and-doctor-who)
From: [personal profile] solarbird
Yes. And for me, appearing in the teaser/trailer makes them expected. (But some people avoid teasers/trailers just for that reason.)

Re: having zoe in a new episode would certainly be unexpected

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 08:32 pm (UTC)
vampwillow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] vampwillow
I never watch trailers for any TV show *or film* because they spoil it for the actual thing. It's akin to reading the final chapter of a book before you start page 1 - totally silly.

Re: having zoe in a new episode would certainly be unexpected

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 11:45 pm (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Default)
From: [personal profile] matgb
Except if a trailer tells you the ending it's a very clear sign it's a really bad film, I don't recall ever seeing a trailer for anything actually good that in any way revealed major plot points or twists, let alone an ending.

Date: Monday, April 17th, 2017 11:52 pm (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Default)
From: [personal profile] matgb
That's basically my take: I enjoy Columbo despite knowing who did it, I can happily rewatch or reread a mystery novel I know backwards, and generally you know the lead cast will survive the Moment Of Extreme Peril before an ad break but the how is entertaining.

I have sometimes skipped to the end of books I'm not sure I want to finish, found that the ending is interesting and gone back to find out how they got there: I've also just given up entirely on a book because the ending was even more dull than the first few chapters, I'm fine with that.

Re: having zoe in a new episode would certainly be unexpected

Date: Tuesday, April 18th, 2017 05:54 pm (UTC)
vampwillow: lion logo (film)
From: [personal profile] vampwillow
Well, yes, but I've seen a number of trailers where they show what will actually be the final big explosions and stuff IN THE TRAILER. #pointless!

Date: Friday, April 21st, 2017 05:51 pm (UTC)
conuly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] conuly
Agreed.

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