miss_s_b: (Default)
[personal profile] miss_s_b

Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2012 11:00 am (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
I worry that it's the fact that bystanders don't speak out that lets them think their behaviour is acceptable.

Me too. Interestingly, every time lately that I've spoken out on other people's LJs about this, I've been immediately labeled a troll, and a hater, and all kinds of other delightful things.

Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2012 03:42 pm (UTC)
ginasketch: (smug)
From: [personal profile] ginasketch
Yeah I don't understand "don't feed the troll" either- I'm not feeding the troll, I'm trolling it.

Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2012 05:59 pm (UTC)
matgb: Artwork of 19th century upper class anarchist, text: MatGB (Default)
From: [personal profile] matgb
I think part of the problem is that people have stopped using the word "troll" to mean "deliberately provocative arsehole looking for an argument and prepared to say stuff they don't necessarily mean" and instead started using it to mean "anyone I disagree with that won't back down", makes it a harder discussion to have.

I've always found engagement without hyperbole normally works better than getting angry as it's getting a rise that they want.

Date: Tuesday, March 20th, 2012 07:46 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gwenhwyfaer
I think in some cases, it gets used for "someone saying stuff I'm scared of admitting to myself I agree with because it'll raise all kinds of questions about my worldview that I'm desperately trying to avoid having to deal with". Then it gets even more difficult to have a conversation. The accusation also comes up a lot when someone challenges, even mildly, the prevailing groupthink of a place. Especially when they're a bit odd, or awkward, or spiky to start with. But then, I've noticed that there's a very English attitude of "we'll accept you so long as you keep your head down, but the second you step out of line any distinguishing characteristic is fair game".

My own personal maxim is that if anyone calls me a troll, I'm gone. I try never to be anything other than genuine, but if I've been that bad at communicating (which is always possible!), it seems unlikely I'm going to find the magic words to heal the rift... and if, on the other hand, I haven't actually said anything to warrant the accusation, whatever issues the accuser is dealing with are both not my problem and beyond my reach. Either way, there's simply no possibility of a useful continuation of the debate.

(I suppose another way to put that is that I'm ridiculously easy to bully into silence...)

Date: Wednesday, March 21st, 2012 10:57 am (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
Absolutely; I was talking about this with Andrew just yesterday. It's like how people who want to be clever are using "problematic" these days; just to mean "something I don't like/agree with" and is intended to shut down further discussion.

Date: Wednesday, March 21st, 2012 06:18 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gwenhwyfaer
Every time I hear the word "problematic", all I can think of is Summer Glau trying to eat a white cake thing on a chain...

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