Avengers Assemble

Thursday, May 10th, 2012 12:06 am
miss_s_b: leela (feminist heroes: leela)
[personal profile] miss_s_b
I loved it. Holly loved it. Holly can't decide if she liked Hulk or Thor best. I can't pick between Iron Man and Black Widow. And Samuel L Jackson Fury was stunningly BAMFish. All the characters were really well drawn, and there were loads of really lovely little touches that wouldn't have been in a by-the-numbers superhero movie, but they were in this and added to its awesome.

However, it wasn't totally unproblematic... I'm not going to go too spoilery, but there are a couple of feministy issues I would like to address.
  1. On the positive side, several people have said that Black Widow isn't given enough to do. Well, she beats up three guys while strapped to a chair then she recruits Banner all by herself then she pilots a plane and shoots people from it then she out-tricks Loki, THE GOD OF TRICKS then she cures Hawkeye of his Loki-brainwash, not by telling him she loves him or any of that soppy crap - but by beating the crap out of him, and once he's cured he's the one who is over emotional about it then she steals and flies an alien aircraft then she saves the whole god-damn world (with a bit of help from a half-dead scientist).

    Now, I'm sorry, but I think that qualifies as enough, especially compared to a couple of the guys, whose storyline is "hit someone" and then "hit some more people". She's the core of the plot. I wish there had been MORE female characters - it would have been particularly lovely to see Jane and Darcy again - but at it's disingenuous to say that the one female hero they had was underused*, and anyone who DOES say that is falling prey to the "women must do twice as much twice as well to be thought of half as good as a man" folly IMHO

  2. Loki tossing gendered insults at her and threatening her with being raped by her best friend, while not out of character for him, was disappointing. He didn't throw the N-word at Nick Fury, or threaten him with rape, and there would have been outcry if he did. So I still think we have a way to go.

All that said? I'd still give it nine out of ten. And I'm still a bit in love with Tony Stark. And yes, I cried at the death of Phil Coulson, but since even Samuel L Jackson sheds a little BAMFy tear at that, I think I'm allowed

*Pepper, while being v smart and running most of Stark, and knowing everyone better than Tony, is not Rescue in this film, and so I'm not counting her in the hero list.

Date: Wednesday, May 9th, 2012 11:50 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] magister
Yeah, disappointing is the word. And horribly out of place. This is an escapist film where aircraft carriers can fly, men wear metal suits wih buil in jet packs, the God of Thunder drops in, supersoldiers are revived from suspended animation and people turn into raging green giants. So why do we need gendered insults and rape threats brought into it? Same thing happened in Thor. After 2 hours in which the most objectified character is Thor, Loki says that after he's killed Thor, he's going to go and rape his girlfriend. Cue Thor going all "Me big man, me protect woman." Oh, please no. Just have him say that he's going to go after Thor's friends. I mean, Loki's a god. It's not like scientist bloke would be any less vulnerable to him.

Other than that, I loved Avengers Assemble. All the characters got their moment in the sun and it was a big, fun,happy adventure film. And Hulk was great. In fact Hulk was fucking brilliant.


Date: Thursday, May 10th, 2012 12:28 am (UTC)
davegodfrey: South Park Me. (Default)
From: [personal profile] davegodfrey
The rape threats really aren't necessary, and tossing the gendered insults isn't good either, although at the time I was too distracted by the fact that they got one of them into a 12A. Probably because "those who know will be old enough not to be shocked by it, and those who don't won't notice" to think "hey, you wouldn't say the equivalent to Fury".

Frankly what made the film for me were all the little touches character touches that Joss does so well. I think that's what I've liked most about the Marvel movies. I'm not a comics reader, and even I know that people have been reading Batman and Captain America for nigh on 60 years because they like the characters.

Date: Thursday, May 10th, 2012 02:46 am (UTC)
ponygirl72: Tucker Aside (Default)
From: [personal profile] ponygirl72
Agreed on both points, though my "squee" far, far outweighs my "ugh".

I was pleased by the spectrum of women portrayed as being valuable individuals in their own rights, from Pepper sending Tony off to do his "homework" and supporting quietly in the background, to Maria Hill competently doing her job, to Black Widow kicking ass.

I was also pleased by the fact that RDJ continues to get hotter every year.

Date: Thursday, May 10th, 2012 05:23 pm (UTC)
ponygirl72: Tucker Aside (Default)
From: [personal profile] ponygirl72
This probably means we are both shallow, and I am surprisingly okay with that.

Date: Thursday, May 10th, 2012 08:20 am (UTC)
drunkwriter: Me in South Park form. (Default)
From: [personal profile] drunkwriter
Black Widow was awesome, but Hulk stole the film. And I'm about as far from being a Hulk fan as it's possible to get.

Date: Thursday, May 10th, 2012 08:44 am (UTC)
von_geisterhand: (Default)
From: [personal profile] von_geisterhand
Yeah, I suspect that they would not be able to get away with the N-word in a PG-whatever film (unless spoken by a black character, obviously) and only got away with "quim"(?) because it is so archaic. Having said that, I was surprised they got away with Captain America absentmindedly tipping Nick Fury without being called out on it.

D'oh! O_O

Date: Thursday, May 10th, 2012 10:05 am (UTC)
von_geisterhand: (Default)
From: [personal profile] von_geisterhand
I'll just leave my coat here while I hit myself with the "Don't overanalyse"-stick for a while, okay?

Date: Thursday, May 10th, 2012 09:57 am (UTC)
pmoodie: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pmoodie
I've seen it twice, loved it equally both times and can't wait to see it again! :)

I mostly agree with you about Loki's gendered insults. I think the idea was for him to press her buttons in a particularly nasty way and a bit of misogyny would certainly do that. I think Joss was going for a Lecter/Starling vibe, but I agree that it felt out of place and it would have been better if the threat had been less about gender.

I would also like to see more of the female Avengers introduced next time. The Wasp and The Scarlet Witch, perhaps.

Date: Friday, May 11th, 2012 07:29 am (UTC)
davegodfrey: Cyberman: The Future is Shiny (Shiny)
From: [personal profile] davegodfrey
Not sure if they can do Scarlet Witch properly. They wouldn't be allowed to mention that she's a "mutant" or related to Magneto, because Marvel don't own the studio rights to X-Men concepts. They couldn't do the Skrulls (and used the name from an alternate universe version, but not the notable characters) because they're bundled with Fantastic Four iirc, so we have to wait for the rights to revert back to Marvel before they can really start tying everything together. Its why they're doing that pointless-looking Spiderman reboot, and yet another Wolverine film. (An X-Men: First Class sequel would be good to see though).

Wasp/Ant-Man and Black Panther would be good to see in a sequel, although the whole "Pym Particle" nonsense will be tricky to introduce to the movieverse, which is at least attempting to be vaguely realistic. (And you can sign me up now for a Black Widow film).

Date: Friday, May 11th, 2012 10:39 am (UTC)
pmoodie: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pmoodie
True, some characters will be out of bounds because of rights issues. I read an interview with Kevin Feige in which he said that there are certain characters that fall into a legal grey area and can be used by mutiple studios, so it would be interesting to see who's on that list.

I had my doubts about the Spider-Man reboot and I would rather that Sony had just let the rights lapse back to Marvel (my ultimate Marvel fan-gasm would be seeing Spidey and the Hulk on screen together!), but I have to say I've been impressed by the trailers. I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

I believe Any Man is going to have his own film, possibly written and directed by Edgar Wright, if he and Marvel can work out a deal!

Date: Friday, May 11th, 2012 10:41 am (UTC)
pmoodie: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pmoodie
That should have been Ant Mann, not Any Man!

Date: Friday, May 11th, 2012 10:41 am (UTC)
pmoodie: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pmoodie
Or indeed, Man! I can't seem to type for shit today.

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