miss_s_b: (Mood: Facepalm)
[personal profile] miss_s_b
Andrew Hickey on twitter has predicted the following:
[I] expect Clegg will announce 'moderate' 'centrist' (i.e. horribly illiberal) 'compromise':
"There are those who think we need to ban the internet entirely. Others want to force you to watch porn. But Liberal Democrats in the positive centre just want to tattoo the foreheads of porn-watchers with 'I am a perv': a sensible compromise that, we feel, properly reflects the mainstream, centrist, liberal consensus"
Let's see how right he is, shall we?

My prediction is that while Andrew's tattoo suggestion is probably a bit unlikely, Clegg is clueless enough about the internet to think that there might be a workable compromise, when in reality the proposed filters will not do what they say they will, will block lots of things they say they won't (examples of things currently blocked by existing porn blocks: The open rights group; the guardian; anything LGBT+, including support sites for teenagers; text based fan fiction; and this blog), and will cause huge headaches for all concerned for years to come.

There is no easy off switch for harmful content. The only way to deal with harmful content is education: teach people what is and isn't harmful and how to cope with it; teach parents how to teach their children. But of course we can't trust people to do that, can we?

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 09:33 am (UTC)
karohemd: (Devil)
From: [personal profile] karohemd
How about "Don't be silly!"?

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 09:42 am (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
NB I think that Lib Dems not constrained by collective responsibility, like Huppert, Leech, Sanders et al, will talk sense on this issue, and that the party as a whole will almost certainly be dead against it.

But I sadly don't think that the leadership will.

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 09:44 am (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
(In other words, the public position of the leadership has gone against the position of the Lib Dems as a party often enough that I think there's not much correlation there any more. It may be that I'm more cynical/paranoid than normal today though, as I haven't taken my niacin for a couple of days, and am Not A Well Boy as a result...)

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 09:56 am (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
I may be, but to be honest I feel a little ashamed of those tweets now. I should at least give Clegg a chance to do the right thing before I get angry at him for doing the wrong one. Were I not so unwell today I would have said nothing.
It's very hard not to think the worst of everything right now, though.

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 12:24 pm (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
I almost had to laugh; when I read those tweets my first thought was "God, he's really not well today is he." You're not wrong at all, but I know you wouldn't normally talk quite like this.

Poor little mite. Get home soon. :)

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 01:24 pm (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
I've been like this for a few days. See me getting banned from smileysmile.net for calling a complete fucking idiot a complete fucking idiot...

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 01:43 pm (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath

Yeah but I thought you did that kind of thing all the time. Did you manage to insult the wrong person or something? (And I still think you'll be less stressed now that it can't tempt you back; it was really bad for your blood pressure.)

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 01:44 pm (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
No, I usually just complained about them elsewhere. But this one was particularly annoying.

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 09:52 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: 12 Apostles rocks, text "Rock On" (12 Apostles)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Australia has had an opt-in version for many years and there's been several attempts over the life of the current government to introduce a much harsher one, now quietly shoved off to die in an unnoticed corner. The proposed filter blocked sexual health sites, an unfortunate Queensland dentist and the website of the former Deputy Prime Minister (who had a link to a local constiuent's stock whip business).

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 10:31 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] magister
If anyone comes up with a block for fucking idiocy, let me know.

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 05:41 pm (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
That's a start, but it doesn't go nearly far enough.

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 10:38 am (UTC)
sir_guinglain: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sir_guinglain
I think that most of the cleaning up work has already been done through peer pressure and evolution. I sympathise with the arguments of some of those who want to regulate, and the 'individual liberty' line of some opponents of legislation fails to acknowledge that it's a sword which cuts both ways. Surely a lot of the most offensive material is on the 'dark internet' anyway which one would need to make a greater effort to track down. So the proposed measure is a response to anxieties with which I understand, but they don't visualise the shape of the problem correctly and mislead the public about its scope.

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 12:13 pm (UTC)
tree_and_leaf: Isolated tree in leaf, against blue sky. (Default)
From: [personal profile] tree_and_leaf
I had an opt-out filter with my Vodafone dongle. It was absolutely awful - forever taking exception to perfectly harmless sites (a cooking blog, for instance; possibly it objected to 'breast'). And obviously anything related to sexual health was right out. It made the internet completely unusable. So there are two arguments against the proposals - there's the civil liberties one, and then there's the one that it won't work, because filters simply aren't sophisticated enough to block illegal (or indeed legal) porn without blocking other things.

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 01:58 pm (UTC)
sir_guinglain: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sir_guinglain
That's true - Virgin's block on my phone internet screens out all sorts of things.

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 12:27 pm (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
As soon as I have the energy, I'm going to suggest that Plus look at what if anything we can do about this, from the angle that these filters always block essential resources, information and support for queer people.

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 12:56 pm (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
You might want to liaise with ACMcG on that -- he's talking about amending a motion or putting in an emergency motion at Conference. I think Kelly-Marie Blundell said on Twitter that she was doing something, too...

Amendment or Motion

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 01:54 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I am indeed thinking of putting together something to address the issue at Conference.

Currently I am awaiting the publication (due late this week, Kelly-Marie tells me) of the agenda & motions to Glasgow Federal Conference. Once I have these, I will see if anything can be amended to address the immediately important points, or if an Emergency Motion is required.

I'm told there is a motion on Child Protection likely to be on the agenda, which it may be possible to amend to address the core point on child access to pornography itself. However, this is unlikely to address the other issues, which I see as including (but not being limited to);

- The Technical Limitations (aka the impossibility of doing what the Tories want to do)

- The deliberate & malicious attempts by the Tories to confuse the issue of child access to porn with the separate issue of porn featuring images of child abuse as a tactic to quash opposition (see a very stupid & now deleted tweet from Margot James)

- The unintended consequences of implementing automated filtering on search terms, especially in terms of blocking access & assistance for LGBTQ+ youngsters and abused children to open advice and assistance. There is also the issue that Cameron's speech and the ORG response to same were both blocked by the mobile phone providers automated filters.

- The business & liability impact of bocks at the ISP or Search Engine level.

- The ethics & practicality of government or ISP held opt-in lists, esp. w/rt data protection, safety, stigmatisation etc.

- The implausibility of further laws doing anything to prevent acts that are already unlawful, without any increase in the effort to enforce said laws.

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 06:27 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I have many, many problems with a lot of internet pornography. But the key thing there is a lot of is not all and I wouldn't want to lose the access to the adult content I enjoy and indeed have a right to view.

I also think the problems inherent in pornography (exploitation of women etc.) are actually reflections of problems in society. Camoron could make a start on addressing these by sorting our the sexism in his government.

Date: Monday, July 22nd, 2013 06:37 pm (UTC)
norfolkian: Holtzmann from Ghostbusters licking a gun (Default)
From: [personal profile] norfolkian
The anonymous comment about porn and Camoron's government was me: I forgot to sign in! :/

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