miss_s_b: (Mood: Facepalm)
[personal profile] miss_s_b
All you people posting stuff to the UKIP freepost address to cost them money? You do realise you're actually costing the Royal Mail money, right? There's this little thing called "abuse of freepost". If you're not aware of it you can be damn sure the Kippers are. If you post them anything larger than large letter size the Royal Mail won't even try to deliver it because large letter is the maximum size for standard freepost*. So bricks might be a problem. And if you post them stuff they don't want they can refuse to pay for it under abuse of freepost.

Now, if you've posted something saying it's from YOU it's entirely possible the Royal Mail could take YOU to small claims to recover the cost, but it's probably not worth their while in legal fees to do so. So it's almost certainly not going to cost you, personally, anything. But the Royal Mail are going to suffer financial losses from this. Me personally, I don't think that makes the political point you were wishing to make.

Just so you know.

ETA: there are people on twitter contending that - like when these campaigns have happened previously - UKIP might just give in and close down their freepost address and that will be a victory. So, if UKIP close down their freepost address, what happens? The Royal Mail get to store warehouses full of undeliverable mail (which costs them money), and people have to pay to contact UKIP (which costs THEM money) and UKIP no longer have a freepost bill to pay (so they are paying LESS money) and will no longer have to sort through mail they didn't want to recieve anyway (so their admin costs will be lower). Pls to be explaining to me how this is a victory against UKIP?

Here's an idea: if you want to defeat UKIP, vote for someone else, and encourage other people to do likewise. If enough people don't vote for them they lose deposits, in the Euros if not the council elections, and that's WAY better than possibly potentially costing them 42p and a bit of annoyance, right?

* OfC you can have enhanced freepost which takes larger items, but no poilitcal party is going to pay for that just to get surveys back

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 09:40 am (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
I'm glad you saved me the bother of having to write this.

There's also another stupidity inherent in this. All parties have Freepost addresses. UKIP are currently, according to the polls, the most popular party (I can't for the life of me understand why, and it won't last, but right now it's the case). That means that there are more of them than there are of us, and it's not like any of the three main parties are actually popular right now. If it *did* work, it'd be easy to turn against us.

(Unless, of course, the idea is to *say* you're abusing Freepost, but not actually do it, but encourage Kippers to do so in "revenge", and get done for it themselves, but I suspect that's far too subtle for most people I've seen suggesting this).

Most importantly, we should be trying to win by having the best ideas, not by making the other parties waste their money. I'm constantly horrified by the number of people who seem to think that democracy is a good thing for precisely as long as it gives the "right" answer...

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 09:49 am (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
I'm horrified by how many people think voting is not as important as clicking like on facebook or going along with some stupid stunt like posting bricks. It drives me mad, especially as I'm living in a country where I can't vote.

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 09:53 am (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
That too. I'm still depressed four years on by the fact that the only time I've ever seen queues at a polling station was because students wanted to click the "I've voted" button on Facebook...

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 09:57 am (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
Well, as long as they actually fucking vote, that's fine with me.

(My parents always got little "I've voted!" stickers and I was so jealous of them when I was a kid. It's a similar kind of bragging/peer pressure thing, and it worked at least on me!)

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 12:01 pm (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
I haven't checked the costs in a couple of years, but at that point it was just under £1000 for the application fees to become a British citizen.

Which I can't see ever having spare (particularly because I have complicated feelings about allying myself with Britishness in any way and there's no other practical benefit to me except this one thing I really want).

Unless I could do a Kickstarter to raise the money. :)

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 12:20 pm (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 12:55 pm (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
Sadly you couldn't:

"Every project on Kickstarter must fit into one of our categories.

Our categories are Art, Comics, Dance, Design, Fashion, Film, Food, Games, Music, Photography, Publishing, Technology, and Theater."

"Kickstarter cannot be used to raise money for causes, whether it's the Red Cross or a scholarship, or for "fund my life" projects, like tuition or bills."

Could try an ad in Eye Need though ;)

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 01:08 pm (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
I know I couldn't. That's why I haven't pursued it. :)

Unless I could figure out a way to make "fills in a postal vote" a theatrical show.

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 01:13 pm (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
That would be illegal, unfortunately. It is, after all, a secret ballot.

But still, remember that you get to vote in US Presidential elections, which are not only more frequent than British generals, but probably have as large an effect on your life...

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 01:20 pm (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
I'm joking, don't worry.

I could still vote in U.S. elections even if I could vote in British ones too, though!

(Jennie I'm sorry to clog up your comments with such silliness.)

Crowd Funding suggestion

Date: Thursday, May 1st, 2014 10:59 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
You could try one of the other crowd funding sites, there are several, indiegogo (www.indiegogo.com) springs to mind.




Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 04:54 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
My Husband is French and still on his French passport. However as an EU citizen he can vote on May 22 and local elections only, just not National yet. You can take the 'naturalisation test' and remain on your non UK passport btw. Depends how long you've lived in UK. What country is your citizenship?

Re: Voting

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 05:59 pm (UTC)
hollymath: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hollymath
Andrew said when he went to hand in his "I'm standing as a paper candidate" forms there was a big sign about what countries you could be from and still vote, and then a shorter list of countries from which you absolutely definitely could not; apparently the U.S. was one of the few in big letters on that list. In case we didn't know. :)

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 10:47 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: 12 Apostles rocks, text "Rock On" (12 Apostles)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
My country has compulsory voting, for which I'm very grateful. People can like things on Facebook all they want, but they still have to go to the trouble to vote (they can spoil their vote, but it seems that few people do that deliberately.).

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 11:08 am (UTC)
ext_51145: (Default)
From: [identity profile] andrewhickey.info
I'm against compulsory voting -- it can lend a sense of legitimacy to unpopular governments if there's no real choice on the ballot, there are people who have strong political or religious objections to voting at all, and in general I'm against compulsory *anything* because I don't like compulsion.
And while not everyone who doesn't vote is apathetic or ignorant, as politicians like to claim (I suspect actually only a minority are), *some* are, and I don't think that forcing the apathetic or ignorant to vote would improve anything.
People should be strongly encouraged to vote, but rather than compulsory voting I want to see a fair system that lets people's votes matter, and political education in schools so they know how to use their vote.

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 11:57 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: 12 Apostles rocks, text "Rock On" (12 Apostles)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Yes, I agree those steps would be better, but in the present day, I'm happy with compulsory voting (there is an exemption for people with conscientious and/or religious objections, they just have to state as much in writing). And in our system, at least, there's a lot of choice on the ballot, even when major parties end up with most of the seats.

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 04:17 pm (UTC)
londonkds: (Default)
From: [personal profile] londonkds
it can lend a sense of legitimacy to unpopular governments if there's no real choice on the ballot

Not if spoiled ballots are legal and required to be officially reported with the same prominence as votes for candidates, which would be my personal required condition were compulsory voting to be introduced.

Are you sure this is happening, or maybe just assuming it is?

Date: Friday, June 13th, 2014 07:03 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I've seen a lot of people say this, but never once seen any evidence that this action is *instead* of voting. A lot of people are assuming this is the way people are thinking, but I don't see any evidence of that.

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 10:44 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Just a small point: UKIP are only the most popular party in the European elections - which a lot of people seem to treat like a kind of mock-exam for the General Election.

UKIP are averaging 14% in the general election polls, which puts them third a long way behind the Tories and Labour.

I mention this because I notice a lot of people getting depressed about it.

I would also mention that, as far as I'm concerned, UKIP have already been beaten in the battle of ideas. Unfortunately, their leader is good at lying - at least to people who trust people based on whether they are "straight talking", rather than just by checking whether what they said is true. UKIP fight dirty, and I see no problem with fighting back.

Nothing about this prevents anybody from campaigning positively for a party, or from criticising UKIP on their policies. Having a bit of fun messing with them on the side is perfectly fine, and if it costs them a little bit of money, that's nothing compared to what they cost us in terms of MEPs salaries and expenses.


It was always going to end this way...

Date: Saturday, May 3rd, 2014 05:34 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
I'd like to think that at least the majority of people "abusing" the freepost address are doing so because they have enough conviction to vote as well.

I have myself returned UKIP propaganda at various junctures, but stopped short of sending anything-else, as tempted as I may have been.

Sadly, it seems the Freepost address has been closed now.


Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 11:39 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Similar goes for anyone considering ringing their Freephone number over and over, except that has a far higher chance of police action being taken against.

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 12:46 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Hey, this sounds plausible, but do you have a source for this information? All I can find are some vague references in Hansard :(

Date: Wednesday, April 30th, 2014 04:27 pm (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Anecdotal evidence is not a trustworthy source. Whilst your statements may hold some truth, I'm not going to give your argument any weight based on 'my mate said this so it must be true.' Yeah, alright then.

Date: Sunday, May 4th, 2014 07:55 pm (UTC)
pseudomonas: (Default)
From: [personal profile] pseudomonas

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Hello! I'm Jennie (known to many as SB, due to my handle, or The Yorksher Gob because of my old blog's name). This blog is my public face; click here for a list of all the other places you can find me on t'interwebs.

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