miss_s_b: (Politics: Democracy)
[personal profile] miss_s_b
I am one of the signatories to this, which is a request to our beloved chief whip to consider suspending the whip from Stephen Lloyd, who keeps saying on the radio that he's going to vote in favour of TMay's brexit deal because he promised he would respect the result of the referendum at hustingses.

I, personally, do not think that voting for TMay's specific deal is a necessary part of respecting the result of the referendum.

I further think, to slightly rephrase James Baillie, that even the broadest of churches has to have some walls, and a mechanism for dealing with people who insist on standing outside pissing in. Every time one of our MPs fucks up on brexit (or even misses a vote) it weakens us. The media have already noticed this. Labour have already noticed this. Hiding and hoping it will go away will not work. We need to show that we have some principles and are prepared to at minimum mildly rebuke MPs who go against them.

If you want to sign, I don't have edit access to the document, but I can pass your name to those who do.


Stephen Lloyd

Date: Friday, November 16th, 2018 04:15 pm (UTC)
michaelftaylor: Michael Taylor (Default)
From: [personal profile] michaelftaylor
If Mr Lloyd is going to respect the result of the referendum then voting for this dog's breakfast is hardly the way to do it. This so-called deal is not Brexit anyway because it will leave us in just the position the leavers suggested we were in during the campaign. Having to obey all the EU rules and having no say at all in formulating them.
Let's be honest, what a lot of leavers wanted was to be totally out of the EU and then to stick two fingers up to them. No deal, however awful it may be, is nearer what the extreme leavers wanted than this shambles. Mr Lloyd might want to stand up for the interests of his constituents - which is what he was elected for - and use what little influence he has to ensure that their lives are not made worse.
Do add my name to the list

Re: Stephen Lloyd

Date: Friday, November 16th, 2018 09:50 pm (UTC)
owl: Stylized barn owl (Default)
From: [personal profile] owl
It's still preferable to crashing out with no deal. And it is the withdrawal agreement not the end deal - if we got a government that was closer to the wishes of the country would it not be possible that they would end up with Norway-ish?

Although the best idea would be just to cancel the whole thing and tell the ERG to get stuffed.

Re: Stephen Lloyd

Date: Saturday, November 17th, 2018 07:43 am (UTC)
michaelftaylor: Michael Taylor (Default)
From: [personal profile] michaelftaylor
I wasn't suggesting crashing out was a good idea, only that it was nearer what at least a goodly chunk of leavers wanted. I was also suggesting that Stephen Lloyd ought to think much more carefully than he is about where he casts his vote, because the withdrawal agreement is almost certainly not what his leave constituents want and it is absolutely bad for all his constituents. To quote Edmund Burke he owes his constituents his judgement, not his vote. And as Moleswoth might have put it 'as any fule know' this agreement puts the UK in a far worse position than staying in.

Re: Stephen Lloyd

Date: Saturday, November 17th, 2018 10:52 pm (UTC)
owl: Stylized barn owl (Default)
From: [personal profile] owl
I bet his Leave constituents don't want rising food and fuel prices, medication shortages and the disappearance of cheap European holidays either. They won't be happy if by some miracle we remain either. So as there's no way of making them happy they might as well be ignored.

The thing that scares me is that there's probably no majority for remain in parliament, and some idiot triggered Article 50 before working out what terms the UK wanted to withdraw under. So we'd go to no deal by default.

Stephen Lloyd

Date: Friday, November 16th, 2018 06:42 pm (UTC)
ruthct21: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ruthct21
nothing to add to what Mick has said except do pass my name on, also.

Thanks for alerting me to this.

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